Good morning! What a beautiful sunny day we had yesterday after the snow stopped! Today is going to be a great day! We are leaving for Lauren's soon and will be there until Saturday afternoon. I am so looking forward to seeing the kid!
This chapter today is a transitional chapter. The words "after this" are used a few times. John had just read or Jesus just said out loud the letters to the seven churches. Chapters 4 through 19 are concerned primarily with God's judgement prior to Christ's coming and Jesus' earthly reign. Lots of symbols- some of which are just words, some of which are real symbols of something. Remember, the symbol is always less than the reality it points to.
John enters heaven at the invitation of Jesus (the first voice). John will be shown things that will happen in the future. John says he was taken "in the spirit". Where was his body? The first thing John saw was the throne. Out of all the things around- the throne was most notable for him. Someone was sitting in the throne. We don't know. My text says "one" was seated...rather than "One" was seated. Was it God? There is no physical description, and my text keeps using the (lower case "o") one as opposed to the (upper case O) One. Jasper is a diamond type shine and gleam; carnelian (some texts say sardius) is red. Diamond = purity and holiness; red = blood. The throne is wrapped in an emerald rainbow (remember the Noahic covenant?!).
I just happen to have a real photo of the throne...
This is a relatively easy chapter, once the symbols are explained. Can you imagine being John and witnessing this?! There are times when I have been in some sanctuaries and just felt awe and power (sometimes even at Little Meadows!) but I am sure that has no comparison to the way John is feeling right now!
Have a great read! Go to google images and take some time looking at the various interpretations of this throne.
We are going to Lauren's this morning and will return Saturday afternoon. I have decided (probably not the best decision) to take the next two days off. So, I will not be posting Thursday or Friday this week. Sorry. I am trying to get a real break from work. I am not even taking any theology books with me to read! Have a great Thanksgiving and I will be back Monday!!
Shalom+
Pastor Paul
I am wondering as I read this is this a vision or a tangible sighting.
ReplyDeletePastor Paul I have been in some truly magnificent places of worship as well as very simple ones. I have been equally moved by both.
Jack I am going to disagree with you about Binghamton. Yes our area has had its struggles but I believe we are like the little engine that could. When I first moved here 34 years ago IBM was going strong and it was so terrible when all those people lost their jobs. During that time we never went into Downtown. SUNY Binghamton has moved part of its Campus Downtown and brought it back to life. We have wonderful restaurants and shops now. Also we do have high taxes but we also have great schools and services in NYS.
That's a great first question Cindy...what do you think? I am of the idea that it is a vision not a real tangible sight- but that is just my opinion! There is beauty in simplicity isn't there!
DeleteThanks Cindy
Wow. I’m glad you posted that picture, Pastor. The light around the throne is brilliant. It is impossible to see if anybody (for lack of a better word) is sitting there. I trust that is where God sits. Questions: Where does God sit when He is not on the throne? What does He do when He is not on the throne? Most importantly, is there ever a time when He is not on the throne?
ReplyDeleteNow the scientific part of me takes over. I am a believer that there is life elsewhere in the Universe. This Universe is too vast for it to be barren of life other than what exists here. I believe that there are planets in other solar systems that have a climate and atmosphere that support life. Maybe it is like life here, or maybe it isn’t. Maybe it is more advanced or maybe it is more primitive. It is impossible to know. I do not believe in all this flying saucer nonsense. My problem is this. The photo you posted, Pastor, is keyed to Earth and it includes only what has happened on Earth. Is this God a God of all creation, or is there a different God for whatever else exists in this vast Universe?
I hope nobody believes that I am too far out with what I believe. I have given this a lot of thought. A similar train of thought is that this picture and the way you describe it, Pastor, pertains only to Christianity. What about the other religions on Earth? Do they worship different Gods, or is Allah, for example, the same God as the one that we worship? I realize that this whole thing is far out, but so far, Revelation seems to be far out. It is interesting, however, and I am enjoying it.
Good question- is God ever not on the throne? Hmmm?? What do you think?
DeleteFirst- the "photo" is an artistic rendition of what John saw. It is what God saw through the revelation from Jesus.
You bring up another good question for debate- is our God the God of all the possible universes or just ours? Hmmm...too hard to answer on a Monday morning!!
I have had the discussion with a few people that you pose at the end. Is our God and Allah the same God? I am not sure of the answer to that- but I do believe that as long as you believe in a higher power and live a good and wholesome life there is reward. I don't know if my God and Allah are the same- but they may be!
Revelation is an interesting look at things!
Thanks Jack
Pastor and all. Have a happy Thanksgiving.
ReplyDeletePastor, enjoy your time with Joseph. I know that you will.
I am so glad, Pastor, that you have decided to REALLY take a few days off and enjoy the family!!
ReplyDeleteI have also been visiting family - both in Philly and Fishkill since Monday but have returned today and read all four chapters and everyone's comments with great interest.
I have been giving some thoughts, as have others, to why there are seven churches addressed. Is it possible because they represent the seven deadly sins - pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth? I can see where some do fit, but maybe not others? But certainly agree that they are examples of the downfalls of churches everywhere today. But if Jesus tells John that he is to send that "letter" or verbally tell the angels of these churches his message, and if the angels are pastors, then isn't it the "job" of pastors to tell his/her church where they are going astray and what they need to do to not suffer the punishment from God/Jesus? Then not the "all is wonderful" theory? Just thinking out loud.
I cannot imagine what John was thinking or feeling. But, then, each angel who interacts with a "human" always says first "Be Not Afraid" so they must have looked scary. Even the angels who first told the Good News to the shepherds.
Jack, I am also a believer that there is probably other life in other solar systems. However, I believe that the NT was written in a language that the readers could understand. Since they did not know of other solar systems and the possibility of other life, it would make the entire NT unbelievable if these things were added. Like if you, Jack, were to explain something to us in your "scientific" terms, we might not understand it or believe it - but if you explained the same thing to us in words and terms we knew and were familiar with - then we would. Does that make sense, Jack?
Listen to what are our sins, listen and repent, and cast our "crowns" before the throne and worship God always and forever. A great message!
I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving and very safe travels!!
Yes, Donna, it does make sense. When the NT was written, the possibility of life elsewhere in the Universe, or even the concept of the Universe, was not even thought of.
DeleteThe seven churches represent all of the churches in the world. They are the examples that Jesus used. I like your though about the seven deadly sins!
DeleteIt is the job of the pastor to keep their flock on the right path- but sometimes pastors have a hard time seeing from within and need to be "notified" of the sins.
Lots of good ideas! Thanks
Hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving and were able to spend time with family Pastor Paul hope time spent with family gave you some much needed R&R. I'm sure you enjoyed time with Joseph.
ReplyDeleteWow reading this chapter sure can make one think of many things, so much symbolism to think of different ways. We could all give different ideas as to what it may mean I am thinking anyhow. One thing comes to mind if the 24 thrones mean the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 disciples Judas must be there???
Nevertheless what is most important is that all who are present all glorify and praise God as the one who was, is and still to come and the Creator of all. I can't imagine to sight that John beheld. What we have seen on earth would never come close to this vision.
That is something to think about, Clara - is one of the thrones for Judas or is it for the one the other apostles elected to replace Judas - Matthias - or maybe even Paul?
DeleteAhhh....good point Clara- if there are twelve thrones for the 12 disciples- Judas must be included!
DeleteIt would be quite a sight to see!
Thanks Clara!
I'm finding it really difficult to comment because this all seems like a crazy dream. I know that lots of people have tried to interpret all this but it's gotta be only best guesses.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine seeing this vision. It's kind of surprising that John would see a door standing open. I wouldn't think there would be doors in heaven. And then to hear a voice that sounds like a trumpet. How frightening to see all the elders, the four living creatures covered in eyes. My Bible says that everyone says to whomever is on the throne: "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory ad honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."
Cathy- I agree- sometimes it is hard to comment. Like I said in an earlier post- we take away some of the mystery when we try to explain!
ReplyDeleteIt would be a strange vision to see and there are some odd points that John talks about!
Thanks!